1:
Casting your family in this film, why did you decide to do that and what did it bring that casting traditional actors doesn’t - do you approach them the same way, non actors and actors, and what is your definition of a non actor and actor?
To that first question, I did not really decide between my parents/family and actors. The film was always supposed to have my parents in it. I wrote the story because I was in my last year of college and I just kept thinking about my dad. I would see similarities between him and I as I was now almost done with school. I started to grow a fondness for my father as a man for the first time--an individual--not just my father. And that sort of struck the idea of writing from what I know--who and what I grew up around. I wanted to have a movie, a moment, a piece of history forever constructed with my family, that experience is worth more than having someone else play them. It was to a certain point, quite selfish of me to cast them, because I wanted them to see what I could do, how much filmmaking means to me.
In my last feature and even now, I prefer to work with theatre actors, one of the leads-- Carter Rideout--is a trained theatre actor and seldom does films. There seems to be such a fun and adaptive energy with theatre students, there is a sense of freedom between the words on the page. I also tend to work with non-actors for this reason, there is an exemption to farceness. The non actor, albeit sometimes difficult to get a good performance or motivation out, has this wonderful immunity to the screen. Much like the theatre actor, has more nuance to their performances that is unlike a film actor. These definitions are loose and I don’t have all the answers, but I see a non-actor as someone who would never be in a picture on their own confidence, whereas an “actor” seeks out these performances and knows their path to be true.
2:
What was your goal with this film, and what other films inspired your work and why?
I sort of covered a bit of this in that last question but I can speak some more on it. On a very basic need, I wanted to have a piece of my family, my friends and myself to have a movie that meant something to us--not in the way that the composed film is important--but the journey to make it. I have the philosophy that my film sets are resembling that of a family get-together. I try to take the inherent business out of it if I can. Looking back now to a year ago when we were filming, the best parts were when the cast and crew would all eat and drink together around my parents' dinner table, telling stories and loving being together. Or waking up to fifteen people all in the kitchen making their coffee and cooking, going over the dailes and feeling connected.
Furthermore, on a more personal note, I wanted to make a movie for my dad. The man who raised me and sacrificed a great amount for me. He is someone who always loved the spotlight, but never really got in because of having to raise a family and provide.
The films I have to thank for my style and me wanting to even be crazy enough to continue in the filmmaking world are mostly small budget independent American films. Such as Killer of Sheep (1978) and all of the works of John Cassavetes, Alfonso Cuarons’ Y Tu Mama Tambien (2001) and the Safdie Brothers like Daddy Longlegs (2009) Heaven Knows What (2014). Other films I can think about right now are Midnight Cowboy, Tony Manero, Beware of a Holy Whore and the works of Lars von Trier.
I really got into film when I would create multiple emails so I could get free trials to FilmStruck in my early teens--I’d spend days going through everything that they had. Eventually Kurosawa-- Ikiru specifically--and Irreversible really sent me on my path.
3:
Was there ever a moment where you’re like…what the fuck am I doing? What was that moment like?
Yes. Every single scene, every single day. Everyday I had to battle myself while on set, there were a lot of emotions going into the shooting process. From expressing myself to my parents who’ve been left in the dark about a lot of my life, to being so involved with the film that at points I was acting one scene, directing, assisting camera, and also producing--there was so much going on for me internally--and honestly it has taken me a while to get over some how stressed I became. Yes it was hard to deal with, but that’s what makes this kind of expression so fun and rewarding, this whole industry honestly, if you’re careful.
There was one day on set, I was getting into character for an emotionally intimate scene I was in. My AD had the whole crew in the house to be quiet and was prepping for the scene--he gave me as much time as I needed, which was really sweet--but being alone in the room, I couldn’t get into it. I was frozen and afraid. I started to freak out, there were all these people waiting for me, it was the last scene of the day I think, and everyone was tired. In order for me to get to the headspace that I needed… or wanted rather, I had a couple crew members come into the green room and just lay down with me and I shared the music I was listening to. For some reason, having those few people in there with me gave me the courage that I needed. This was the hardest day of shooting for me. It was also the day I truly understood how blessed I am.
4:
Talk to me about the truth in fiction. Do you see this as a documentary or a narrative, what is the difference for you in those two formats, and what did you learn about yourself in the making of this both the creative learning and the personal learning? You use home movies in this work too, so what is that about?
In May of 2022. It was the very first thing we shot. It was a scene where my mom is driving, having an emotional breakdown. We got ready for the shot and I was trying to talk with my mother about the scene and what I wanted and how all this filming stuff works, and then she just looked at me and said, “don’t worry, I’m already there”. For context, the story is based on actual events, and this was a very traumatizing moment in my parents life. We started rolling and my mom just broke down in tears--tears so real I was kicking myself in the ass--I could not stand to make my mom cry for a stupid movie. She was so beautiful in it, and gave such a fierceness to that performance, because it was real. At that point I had to re-think the evolution of the film, and how meta it was getting. Cascading in on itself, a true story now being acted out in a fictional retelling years later by the exact people who went through it.
Thank you for this question.
I see this as a narrative because it is scripted, but the nature of the material, events and even shooting style aligns itself more with a documentary piece.
I see ‘Living’ as my ode to my parents and our family, a mesh of my professional life right after attending film school and my home life watching my family as a kid with an eye for images and stories. As for the home movies, I wanted to display my parents in the timeframe that the actual events of the story took place, and also spectate myself as a child. Editing the film and looking through all the footage, taken in 2022 for the film and the early 90s and 2000s was a very trippy and emotionally taxing undertaking. However, it gave me a new perspective on time, and how odd it is to be alive, how fragile every living existence is and thankful I am for having what I have. I will be honest it also made me extremely existential and introspective.
5:
Arkansas seems to be a character in this piece. What role does a sense of place have in your work and what is unique and what is universal about the setting of this film?
Growing up in Arkansas, I always wanted to get out of Arkansas. That was just kind of born into me. Oh if you want to do film you need to leave the state--quickly I began to see that as a disadvantage--Arkansas is a beautiful place, and the stories here need to be told. Regarding the question of being a “character” in the film, I think a sense of place is essential in a story, however for me and the stories I currently want to tell, space isn’t required to be given to the audience. I prefer to not use establishing shots, or show the surrounding areas of a story unless they directly influence the constitution of the film. I like the idea of a character based experience where the spectator is thrown into the world and only getting glimpses of it. For ‘Living’, it was entirely shot in my hometown, the place where the characters live is where my family has lived since 2001. The shop is my dads personal mechanic shop, the surrounding town is where we all grew up--so in that sense the location is very personal. In a way it was quite disheartening bringing a crew to my hometown because it was as if I was allowing them into my younger self, seeing the world how I did when I was a child.
6:
What is your response to someone who thinks all films need to be entertaining? What is the value in a film and a piece of artwork that is more process oriented? What was the reaction of your family to both the process of being in the film, and the film itself?
I find film to be an expressionistic act, a form of baring one's soul to another. Art is the connection between the person that made it and the art itself. Being engaged in a film is just about equal to being entertained in some way, so I don’t necessarily think you can have one without the other. I do treat my work as, yes, more processed based, very akin to therapy. I write from thoughts and feelings that I struggle with on a daily basis and then twist them in some way to formulate a story. As an artform it can open up a vast platter of introspection and sympathy contrary to any other form of visual art. People allow themselves to let go, to be symbiotic with the images and characters on screen, sharing their perspective and relating to them. This is very special and more important than the entertainment value of a picture.
My parents knew I “did film work”, as they helped put me in a film school. Watching movies with them was really how I connected to them earlier in life--and the introduction of them on a film set was very interesting. Upon asking their blessing to use their story and in hopes to cast them, they were reluctant only because it was new to them, they actually liked the idea but didn’t really understand. A year later I started my crowdfunding and started prepping, getting a team together and doing test shoots. They were all for it, but hiding their anxieties about the performance. Since shooting in my hometown was a major factor in the filming process, the crew and I had to really schedule to get everyone out there, most cast and crew driving multiple hours to set.
During our two week shoot, the entire cast and crew stayed in my childhood home. All sleeping on beds, couches, air mattresses and eating every meal together. My parents have now told me that this was their favorite part of the whole process, meeting these people--my friends from college--and “having a bunch of kids running around the house again”. I think I agree with them. Regarding their involvement in acting, they were superstars about it. They had to adapt to the set lifestyle but they ate it up, what started as “just a little thing to help out my child” became something that they started to enjoy separate from me. I’m getting emotional just thinking about it, but there was a time where I was directing a scene, you know just talking with the different departments, and I looked over to my parents--who were sitting together on the couch reading their lines-- and they just had such an elated look on their faces.
As far as the content of the film I was scared shitless, collaborating with my parents and having the story be about a queer relationship, placed in rural Arkansas, drew out some fear that they would be hesitant to work on such a project. My mom and dad treated the film with respect and were as supportive as anyone could be. They still have not seen any part of the film as I hope to share it with them in a theater one day.
7:
What role did the sonic climate play and how did you approach it?
I wanted it to feel raw with some ethereal elements. The mix of the music in the film, all made by friends of mine, takes on this nostalgic tone that really resonates with how Arkansas--specifically my hometown--makes me feel. There is something beautiful about it, but there is also a deep longing, a longing for something greater, some meaning of purpose. It is a hard emotion to describe in words, it is just one of those responses you get that makes you swell in the throat.
The sound design in the film is important to the characters in that world--which is the truthful climate my family lives in--because sound is so connected to memories for me. I wanted to show off the sounds of my childhood really, the distant train horn, the people mowing the grass, the wind chimes, the drilling noises of impact wrenches, it all adds so much texture that would otherwise be forgotten.
8:
How do you feel about the terms Queer filmmaker, Queer cinema and micro budget filmmaking? Do those terms fit your work? Does that feel constrictive or liberating?
I think the term Queer filmmaker is great, and is what I hope to present in a respected way along with all the beautiful voices out there making themselves heard. But that is not just who I am, I wear that proudly, however I am just me. At this time I am really interested in telling this story of a queer couple, a trans person and acceptance because I think it is very important in our lives right now. I am working on other projects that do not involve a queer character like ‘Living’, does that mean that I stop being a queer filmmaker? At what point do we attribute this to the art or the artist? It is a very intricate discussion. Moreover, it is important for me to tell my perspective so that I can express to people a little piece of my heart. I am rather shy to confront people in my life with what is going on in my life, or all these things I contemplate… however in a filmic sense, I am able to communicate.
The micro budget film is one of the best examples of filmmakers going against all odds and articulating their worldview. These perspectives in cinema are true conscience, because you are putting everything into a chance, an opportunity to make something that can make people understand who you are fundamentally.
Yes, both of these terms fit the work that I have produced and I cannot feel restrained by these by virtue of where I am in my career. I see my work as an experimentation of my life, my truths and my thoughts. Using unorthodox methods of conception with these stories because I am not in the industry, I am on the outside looking in. My first feature I probably spent around six hundred dollars, just using school equipment and what I had, getting every friend or classmate I knew to help out--and people filling multiple rolls. For my second feature, we were able to raise $24,000 via crowdfunding and I felt so much pressure having even that amount. It took so much work to get to that point and it was so rewarding to be able to rent lenses and pay the crew, nevertheless it still had that experimental aspect of the unknown. We all know how to make movies, but putting that to the test in an upscaled budget was really unnerving. It offered more creative control but also put a lot of stress on the production.
9:
Is this a love story? And if so who’s love story is it? Break down a scene that you love and why you love it?
I see the film equivalent to a pastoral or an ode poem--the concept of the film actually started as a poem that I wrote in a writing class I had, where the speaker took on the perspective of my father getting into a tanker accident. So deep down, even though the film doesn’t have a warm tone to it, it is an ode to my hometown and my parents. It is a triangle of love stories.The first being a love story between Ab and Bo, our two younger protagonists. The second being a fathers love for his son. And the third being a more meta love of our family, the people in the film playing a version of themselves.
There is a scene in the movie where Jeff, my dads character, is resting on a couch, and Cheryl--my mom--is checking up on him. Pretty straight forward scene, but the way my mother acted--hell if I can even call it that, she was just undoubtedly herself, with no perception of the lens--was so heart wrenching. You could see thirty years of marriage bubble up in her eyes as she looked at Jeff, caring for him so much. She knew her marks and her lines, and completely exceeded any truth I could ever write.
10:
What advice would you give to Filmmaker‘s who just wanna make something and don’t see any feasible way forward that may be on the fence of deciding to spend a substantial amount of time and money on a passion project versus going on vacation or eating at a fancy restaurant? Being on the other side of it wasn’t worth it and what advice would you give them?
Take a vacation after you finish filming. No, in all seriousness it is truly a double edged sword, on one hand making this film is the greatest thing to ever happen to me; I made a movie, I now know all the things that I can do regarding this life of cameras and acting, I made lifelong friends, the relationship with my father elevated greatly, my parents now have great memories and so do the crew. But on the other hand it was extremely maddening and taxing on me mentally; it consumed my life for two years, and still sorta does, it put me in an unhealthy position that I can’t really argue with. But I love cinema so much, and having the slightest opportunity to do it, I will always do it. Most days I need it to breathe, as something to journey through, there is just some uncanny bliss to creating something with other people who love the same thing you do. I think being in this realm of art, one has to be very thick skinned, you have to fight, you have to love, you have to feel, you have to push yourself and expand your brain and have collaborators to do the same. But it's hard work for someone like me, someone who is so emotionally consumed, so I am not sure if this is everyone's experiences with making movies, I am just echoing my personal reality.
Follow up: what else are you working on?
I am currently polishing up my next script which I hope to get in production in a year or two. It is a character study on a female butcher who gets mistreated by the men in a small southern town until she has a mental breakdown while struggling with her aged regressed brother. I think that will be the next film I do, but I have been writing a few other stories here and there.